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Long Range Muzzle Loader
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl Long Range Shooting with other rifles >> Black Powder Cartridge Rifle >> Deeley-Edge-Metford http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1192514865 Message started by David on Oct 16th, 2007, 7:07am |
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Title: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 16th, 2007, 7:07am I've been playing with a Deeley-Edge-Metford on and off this year. This rifle has an 1878 dated action and in recent years that was all that remained of it! The action was acquired in South Africa by Martin Tebbs. Being a barrel maker Martin fitted a new Metford barrel and had the whole re-stocked. He chambered it for the Sharps 45-2.6" cartridge for long range shooting. Some time later I acquired the rifle from Martin. The 45-2.6 and early Rigby .45 cartridges are very similar. See Rigby .45 Match Rifle (http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1171485896). The rifling is the early square cut gain twist Metford pattern which is contemporary with the rifle. As best I can understand this was used on the match rifles until 1883 while the segmental style of Metford rifling was used on military pattern rifles. Following the ban on cleaning between shots introduced by the NRA ( GB ) in 1883 the segmental rifling was also adopted with the match rifles. Promising results so far at long range, the limitations at the moment being my hand loading knowledge! David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 16th, 2007, 11:59am While I don't have any personal experience with it, I've heard that the 2.6 can be rather delicate to reload, especially as to fouling management. Some shooters I know have returned to the 2.4 as being easier as regards load development. Then again, challenges are always quite interesting... What sights? Unfortunately, I won't be able to make the Trafalgar though - work interfering (same as each year). :-/ |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 16th, 2007, 7:32pm It has one of Rex Holbrook's Goodwin rearsights, the ML version. The base for the BL one does not fit so well, however I may look at seeing what can done in the future. I'll try and post some pictures after the weekend. I'm quite enjoying playing with the rifle. First time out at 900yds I put 15 shots down range and stayed on target which I was pleased with. Just need to see what I can do about getting the group a little tighter now! David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 16th, 2007, 7:46pm My #2 Musket Martini has the same sight mounted - for now. I do prefer something with a vernier, though - which is why I have a new sight on order at Mike Neumann's (I already have 3 Holbrooks, so time to try something else...) Still, it is quite serviceable indeed. And as to BL match shooting, well.... it is quie a bit different from ML shooting, unless you are shooting a land diameter PP bullet, in which case you're getting close! FWIW, I had very good results shooting a Metford-style PP bullet at 540gr at the HBSA midrange match, very accurate! |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 24th, 2007, 6:24pm Weather was kind all day Saturday (dry and sunny) for the NRA Trafalgar meeting at Bisley. Had a reasonable shoot for first time outing with the D-E-M in a match, and only third shoot with it at 900 yards. After a tricky start with some misses sighting and on my first match shot I kept the remaining 14 match shots on target for a score of 49. Need to use the winter now for some further load development work. http://www.researchpress.co.uk/pics/dem_traf07.jpg David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 25th, 2007, 7:48am David, Looks good... Quite a heavy barrel (as is best on such a rifle). Am I right in saying that you have an underlever version, as I don't see a sidelever on your action? I just wish I could have been at the Trafalgar, is there already a date fixed for next year (I just hope it won't be 18-19/10...). Any load details you would care to share? Gert |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by 451kr on Oct 25th, 2007, 9:51pm Shot also on the trafalgar. Both days beautiful weather won the 900y with a score of 63.2 and a second place with the same score as the first place with 48.4 with my sharps borchardt. Date next year 18-19 oct. |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 26th, 2007, 1:48pm Ah well, that means no Trafalgar for me next year... :'( I'll just have to make do with the HBSA matches, and the Imperial. |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 28th, 2007, 5:22pm belgmart wrote:
The trigger guard drops down and lowers the complete action. This is an early patent action before the side-lever was introduced. I'll try and get some photos sorted. Loads I am still working on... but have been shooting 95 grains Swiss #4 with a (thin) plain card wad and a Lyman Postell bullet. Nothing special about it. This is still relatively new to me and I mostly shoot muzzle loaders. I was at Bisley Friday/Saturday. Friday we had a practice day at 600yds and I scored 43x50, with one 3 (pilot error) and the rest 4/5s. I was pleased with that but now just need to see what I can do to tune things. I also want to try paper patched bullets. David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 29th, 2007, 9:45am David, With such a cavernous case, maybe some Swiss #5 would work better, with less barrel heating and fouling. One thing for sure, you'll be shooting 1300+ fps... And a heavier bullet (maybe PP) would probably work even better. Ah well, half the fun is in the experimenting, and a lyman Postell is never a bad choice, except a bit wind-sensitive at longer ranges. Still, it seems you're getting there indeed. Will you go for bore- or groove-size PP bullets? |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 29th, 2007, 6:22pm Gert, My main discipline is muzzle loading and to date I have just been using components I had to hand. The Postell and Swiss #4 gave me adequate enough results to have a go at a match before the competition season ended. Now I have some work to do. I don't have any #5 but plan to try it. The PP mould I have is for my muzzle loader, but I'll give it a go. Don't know yet whether to go for bore or groove diameter for a new mould - I need to do a little home work yet. Where did you get your Metford mould from? My wife, Kim, has a Browning 45-70 and we have had some good results with a mould by Thomas Laumer from Germany - the bullet weighs about 560 grains. I also have a NASA style bullet to try which has worked well with Kim's rifle. Winter will give my plenty of practice time (weather permitting :)!). I have a 200yd range I can use that is a little less than 30 minutes drive. David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by belgmart on Oct 30th, 2007, 7:26am David, A new PP mould is always tricky - I went for groove dia., but some have great success with bore dia. I got my Metford mould from Mike Neumann in SA, and I just received another mould from Steve Brooks - this one has a tapered shank, bore diameter near the ogive, groove diameter at the base (all dimensions after patching). Haven't shot it yet, but if there's a need, I can always try and send you some. I did use quite a hard alloy with the Metford bullet though. BTW, those other mould do seem like they would also work quite well... |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by drcook on Oct 31st, 2007, 10:57pm David, can you get Goex? consider the following 1. Goex 1F - I shoot 98 grain 2. cigarrette paper or other combustible wad over the flashhole 3. drop tube of course 4. 45 caliber wax paper wad over powder to compress to seating depth 5. after compression, use a .060 LDPE wad with a 45 caliber notebook paper wad over it 6. I use 540 gr Paul Jones Creedmore 7. Buffalo arms has a Redding competition seating die for the 45 2.6 will get your bullet runout into the .001 to .002 range 8. i use federal 210M primers 9. I am using Starline 45 2.6 brass and annealing it 10. I am using a combination of a friends lube cut with SPG, but DGL is a good lube also 11. you gotta blow tube or wipe to control the fouling I like the 45-100 myself. I also shoot the 45-110. I have a couple CPA Stevens 44 1/2's and a couple Shiloh's chambered for the bigger cartridges regards dave |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by David on Oct 31st, 2007, 11:38pm Dave, Thanks for the tips. I can't get Goex but will be trying some Swiss #5 which I believe is close to Fg. Flash-hole wads are yet to be tried, as are combinations of wads as you suggest. Lots to do this winter with endless experimentation available! David |
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Title: Re: Deeley-Edge-Metford Post by drcook on Nov 1st, 2007, 12:12am the reason I use the wax paper over the powder to compress is it keeps it in the case and I found when I was using the LDPE and compressing, the LDPE was expanding radially and bulging the case sometimes i really like a 45-100 on a cool damp Ohio morning. they will really crack like a 30-06. one morning I scorched the grass about 5 feet out ;D |
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