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Research Press
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Breech Loading - Military Rifles >> Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1118632089 Message started by Coyote on 06/13/05 at 4:08am |
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Title: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Coyote on 06/13/05 at 4:08am Due to a mis-reading of the L.o.C at �1328-August 20, 1866, the result of an omission of the powder charge used in the Mk I ball round in my copy of the List., a misconception has been rendered that I have now clarified, and rectified. Coyot� Part 1. A few years ago I did a series of posts regarding how to load the Snider. This series was 5 posts that can be found in the Reference Library on the British Militaria Forum. I touched slightly on the L.o.C. (List of Changes) in the first two segments of the series. For those of you who are new to British arms, and Sniders specifically, and don't know what the L.o.C. is, well, it's an extremely large directory of all of the changes and updates that took place in British armament from the very beginning of the Empire to the present day. That being said, the area we will deal with here is the list specifically concerning the Snider Enfield cartridge as it was produced by the British government beginning in 1866, and as used by the soldiers in the field until the Snider was decommissioned from the first line in 1871. Then with the use of modern components we will attempt to construct and get as close as possible to an "authentic" L.o.C. load. Below are pictures of the first 3 Snider cartridges in half section illustrations that show their inner bits as well as the outer whole. http://www.fototime.com/969C9809EFB1E8C/standard.jpg The Mk-I through Mk-III British military Snider cartridges are all made with a rolled sheet brass cartridge case, as were all of the cartridges used during the Sniders first line duty. The Snider never fired a drawn or a turned cartridge case during this period. A quick look at the rim and head area of the Mk-I will show you the change that was made in the Mk-II... extraction problems perhaps...? The Mk-I thru Mk-IV ball cartridges were all charged with 68-72 grains of Rfg black powder. The L.o.C. listing for the Mk-I cartridge lays out the basic parameters. The direct L.o.C. quote follows: "�1328-August 20, 1866 Cartridges, Boxer, ball, and blank, for Snider rifles (Pattern 1). Blank Cartridge: The case is formed of brass 0.003 inch thick, which being rolled on a former, overlaps one quarter turn, and a piece of thin paper is cemented on the outside. The case and Brass chamber for the anvil and cap are fixed in the brass base by a paper wad. An anvil, on which is placed a percussion cap, is inserted in the brass chamber in the centre of the base of the cartridge. A band of purple paper, 2.3 inches long and 1 inch wide is pasted round the top of the case, and is choked with thread. Charge F.G. powder 80 to 84 grains, slightly pressed in. About two grains of carded wool is placed on top of the charge. Ball Cartridge: The case and arrangement of the anvil are the same as in the blank cartridge, except that the brass overlaps 0.2 inches more than twice round. Bullet, pure lead; diameter 0.573 in.; diameter over lubrication 0.577 in.; length 1.12 in.; weight with clay plug 525 grains; Lubrication wax; Cannelures, 4; Charge, rifle F.G. powder: 68 to 72 grains. About 1/2 grain of carded wool is placed on top of the charge. The bullet is fixed by choking in the case into the bottom cannelure." You will notice the Mk-I and Mk-II have a slightly longer bullet. This bullet was the 'left-over' .573" diameter, 1.120" long, 525 grain, Pritchett hollow base bullet that was developed around 1855 and used originally in Pattern 53 Enfield muzzle loading rifles. In May of 1867, in L.o.C. �1449, the Mk-III cartridge (far right) came into being. This was a pivotal point in Snider cartridge developement. This cartridge had the shorter P-58/60/61 Enfield bullet, this was the most important change that was made to the Snider cartridge before the advent of the drawn case. All of the subsequent cartridge changes or improvements incorporated this basic bullet shape, size, weight and design ... I quote again from the L.o.C. directly: "�1449-4 may 1867 Cartridge, ball, Boxer, for Snider rifles, .577 bore. Pattern III. This differs from Pattern II only in the bullet, which is of the following dimensions &c.: Bullet, pure lead; diameter, 0.573 inch; diameter over lubrication, 0.577 inch , 1.04 inch; weight with clay plug, 480 grain; lubrication wax; 3 cannelures (saw shaped); Some of the first bullets used for this pattern had three rounded cannelures. Note: this cartridge has been superseded in manufacturer by Pattern IV. End of part one of four |
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Title: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Coyote on 06/13/05 at 4:13am Part 2. The shorter bullet used in the Mk III cartridge, proved decidedly more accurate than the long bullets used in the Mk-I and Mk-II Cartridges, and superseded them within the first year after the Snider was adopted. Though in its last change the Mk-II was actually adopted later than the Mk-III, it went the way of the Dodo in a hurry with the advent of the Mk-IV and Mk-V cartridges, that were adopted on the same date. This new Mk-III bullet performed well. It was 1.04" long, 0.573" diameter, and weighed 480 grains with the base plug installed. If you will look closely at all of the bullet cross-sections in these photos, you will notice the hollow bases are all of the same straight taper. Also you will notice the shape of the base plug that is used. This hollow base design is the hallmark of a Pritchett bullet and was used by the British government from around 1855 until 1871 which includes the Snider Enfield. The mathmatical studies and equations of Alfred George Greenhill predicted more stable and accurate performance from a shorter bullet, and turned out to be the case with the Snider's slow 1~78" twist rifling... Even the Snider fast twist barrels at 1 turn in 48" were slow by contemporary mid to late 19th century standards. The Mk-IV cartridge (L.o.C. � 1450, 8 July 1867), is not pictured because it is exactly the same as the Mk-III except the rim disc was changed to iron instead of the brass disc used on the Mk-III. In the picture below you will see the Mk-V through Mk-VII cartridges... http://www.fototime.com/94D24E1D397DC4A/standard.jpg the Mk-VII (L.o.C. �1760, 1 March 1869). As a side note here you have no doubt noticed, some of the earlier Mk's have multiple and later dates of adoption than some of the later Mk's. The British didn't out of hand just disregard a design, they would try various changes within a particular design that were accomplished at a later date, hence the reason the late Mk-II postdates the Mk-III for instance. In the picture above you will see the MK V through MK-VII Cartridge drawings. The Mk-V is essentially the Mk-IV Cartridge. The Mk-IV and the Mk-V, as well as the "late" Mk-II were all introduced on the same date at different L.o.C. sections. "�1496-July 8, 1867 Cartridge, small arm, ball, breech-loading, Boxer, for .577 inch Snider rifles. 2 1/2drs. Pattern V." You will also notice that the Mk-I thru Mk-VI cartridges contain a boxwood plug in the nose of the bullet that is a remnant from the old Pattern Enfield muzzle loaders. It must be remembered that the bullets used in the Snider were supplied from the warehouses that were full of surplus Pattern Enfield bullets ... The wood plug was changed with the Mk-VII. I will quote the L.o.C. directly: "� 1760, 1 March 1869 Cartridge, small-arm, breech-loading, Boxer, for .577 inch Snider rifle, 2� drams." (68.35 grains) "(Mk VII.) This pattern is identical with Pattern VI excepting in of the bullet having no wood plug in the front cavity, which is closed by the lead being spun over the apex. It may be distinguished from the Pattern VI by the absence of the wood plug, as the lead being spun over gives the bullet the appearance of being solid." The Mk-VIII cartridge ( L.o.C. �1862, 26 October 1869 ), is not pictured, and was identical to the Mk-VII in every respect except for the glue that was used to fasten down the outer covering paper, it was changed from a shellac base glue to India rubber cement. The Mk-IX cartridge pictured below incorporates all of the improvements that were discovered, and differs from the Mk-VIII in that it uses the bullet from the Mk-III & IV with the nose plug removed and the lead spun over to close the nose cavity. http://www.fototime.com/77FA737088BD340/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/55AC0A88783F124/standard.jpg End of part two of four |
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Title: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Coyote on 06/13/05 at 4:16am Part 3 Now, on to the task of rounding up all of the goodies needed to reproduce as close as possible using a drawn case, a Mk-III L.o.C load including card wads and carded wool... add to that, a modern version of the Mk-VII bullet, with 2 wide saw shaped cannalures, beeswax lubed, .575" diameter, Pritchett style with base plug, absent nose plug... When added together... III + VII... heck, we should end up with a new addition for the L.o.C... The Mk-X "drawn brass" Snider-Enfield cartridge. ;) Then we will build the same exact cartridge using the same pritchett based bullet with base plug... only with a .590" groove diameter, and we will see how they compare. And the .590" will be the Mk-XI perhaps?...(chuckle)... http://www.fototime.com/28F6BF52B7480F1/standard.jpg Above, are the two bullets we will be using in our modern L.o.C. Snider test. First is the land diameter Coyot� .577/460Enfield, on the left, and the Coyot� .590/480Snider-Enfield on the right. Both are shown fitted with "Bondo" (body putty), base plugs. The 577 is designed specifically for the "slooow" twist 3 band Enfields. It is cast of 1~30 alloy and has a .030" narrower lower driving band than the .590. This allows for rapid and positive expansion. These are modern versions of the original Enfield grooved bullet with the alteration of wide driving bands between the saw shaped grooves reducing the number of grooves from 3 to 2... The .590 is groove diameter, in 1~20 alloy... base expansion is not an issue with this bullet. The hollow base and base plug dimensions in both are the same as the originals. 70 grain minimum on these thick skirt puppies, and you can ramp it up from there with no fear of skirt deformation. |
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Title: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Coyote on 06/13/05 at 4:21am Part 4. |
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Title: Re: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Bill_Curtis on 06/13/05 at 11:22pm I must disagree with two of the statements in the preceding posts. 1. The well known bullet with its base plug is NOT the Pritchett bullet which had a shallow conical base cavity and no plug. This first Pattern Bullet was used up to the early part of of 1855 when practical experience from the Crimea caused its rejection and replacement by longer bullets with iron cups, firstly in the form of the hemispherical cups in the 1851 Rifles and then in the shape of truncated cones which were replaced by 1856 with wood plugs. 2. The statement that the early Snider bullets were from stocks of old P'53 bullets is erroneous, the Snider bullets were an entirely new design with cannellures for lubrication and hollow noses right from the start. The noses were wood plugged at first until the Mk VII. The hollow nose had been proven effective in those experimental Metford Explosive Bullets tried out at the end of the ML period as a result of which they were adopted for the new Snider Ball. None of the bullets for the ML series had cannellures including the Metford hollow points. 3, There was a brief trial of cannellured bullets in 1853 in the Altered Pattern 1842 Mini� in .758 calibre but these were very shallow grooves, not intended for lubrication, and were an experiment in the effects of the grooves on the stability of the bullet passing through the air. |
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Title: Re: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Coyote on 06/14/05 at 11:20am Bill. The Snider-Enfield Bullet is a Pritchett based bullet. The plug was made from ceramic rather than boxwood however, a much more reliable material for the purpose... but Pritchett based, it is! http://www.fototime.com/05B3CBE4EC63550/standard.jpg The early swagged, paper wrapped shallow based pure lead Prictchett bullet that used no base plug illustrated above, was replaced shortly after the Indian Mutiny in 1852 with the base plugged Pritchett pictured below... http://www.fototime.com/5E58D00E47D312C/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/6BC2C97C7D40D5E/standard.jpg The man who did the seminal work on the experimental Enfield cannelured Pritchett based bullet was a man named James Henry Burton who was the chief engineer at Enfield from 1855 to 1860. His whole deal was to make the Pattern-Enfield bullet simple to load and incredibly accurate without the paper... The fruit of his labor laid semi-fallow when he left Enfield in 1860 to head the armory in Macon Georgia during the war between the states... The bullet design was in experimental production for the Pattern-Enfields just before he left however, and was later picked up and used in the Snider. The tapered boxwood plug in the nose, and the tapered ceramic plug in the base both stuck out of their respective cavities a tad. When pressure was applied with the ram rod it caused this cannelure lubed experimental soft lead alloy bullet to expand at the skirt and at the forward driving band when pressed sufficiently against the powder. The latter was more of a forward driving bulge actually. This expansion occured when 25 to 30 lbs. of ramrod pressure was applied ramming the bullet home. In practice the tapered boxwood nose plug caused only a very small amount of expansion, however the tapered base plug shoved the skirt out into the rifling nicely, and the exploding powder did the rest. The old smooth sided, lubed paper patch covered, boxwood plug cavity based, Pritchett bullet was nothing more than the test bed for what Burton was doing, and fortunately before he left Enfield his improvements were on their way to being mass-produced and were... Now I'm certain that Pritchett, Lovell, Metford, and others may have had input here, but the driving force was Burton... There were changes made to the bullet throughout the Sniders service life, and I'm sure that many warehouses of early Enfield bullets were melted down to make them... BUT, the bullet as it was produced and used in the Snider-Enfield, was originally created for use in the Pattern Enfield, and remained unchanged from Burtons basic muzzle loading Enfield design. Burton also invented the so-called "Mini� Ball" that we are all familiar with, that are fired by the boatload on ranges throughout the world every year... It should be called the "Burton ball"... 'cause there ain't nothing Mini� about it. There's no semi-circular iron cup in a parallel sided hollow base... If you look at a cross section of Mini�s ball it looks like a ball sitting on a short section of same diameter tube... The bullet we fire every weekend was, and still is Burtons own... Unfortunately, Burton was on the defeated side at the end of the war between the states and received no credit for that one as well... http://www.fototime.com/AB3E5EB26CC0686/standard.jpg It was found that the hollow nose, or when nose plugged with a lighter material like boxwood gave the bullet a little better balance and stability in the slow twist rifling, but it was also found that by shortening the bullet a tad, the same or better result was achieved. As far as exploding bullets... I know that Jacobs was experimenting with those. However, I would think that a 58 caliber hollow point made of soft lead alloy racing at you at 1100fps would be quite explosive... if one was unlucky enough to get hit with it ...(chuckle)... |
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Title: Re: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by smokey on 09/05/06 at 1:19pm [sir; mr. coyote, i odered 40 rounds of MH brass back in april and i still have not recieved it. my e-mails or my phone calls have not been aswered. PLEASE send the brass or my money back. thanking you in advance smokey. |
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Title: Re: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by Admin on 09/05/06 at 6:02pm The above posting was made over a year ago and I don't think there have been any more. Try contacting Coyote via the British Militaria forums at: http://p223.ezboard.com/bbritishmilitariaforums David |
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Title: Re: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider. Post by FBoulton on 09/06/06 at 5:42pm For any member who is looking for a simple Snider load: here goes: My cases are turned brass, expensive and precious. I use the same powder charge as I use in the P53 Enfield: 54 grains of "Medium". The case is stood in a loading block with a drilled through hole slightly larger than primer dia, for reasons which will become obvious. I use a Lee "Modern Minie" bullet dipped in molten "Wonderlube". Bullets intended for the Snider are dipped upside down, so as to fill the base up. The charge is poured into the primed case (Large pistol primers) and a thick, glazed card wad seated on the charge. The bullet is seated by thumb pressure and then tapped once with a flat faced hammer.(The Lee bullet is flat faced and minimal distortion occurs). Thats it. No case re-sizing, no loading dies, no crimp. I have been shooting this load for about 6 years and am currently averaging 94 at 50 meters in the club competition. I have never lost a case. Fred. |
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