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British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Breech Loading - Military Rifles >> RFG2 powder
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1120735779

Message started by DoubleD on 07/07/05 at 12:29pm

Title: RFG2 powder
Post by DoubleD on 07/07/05 at 12:29pm

Does anyone have the specifications of RFG2 blackpowder? Burn rate, screen size, glazings?

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by dbm on 07/07/05 at 8:21pm

I've not heard of this before in the UK. Is this a US powder?

David

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by Coyote on 07/07/05 at 8:55pm

David,

RFG, and RFG2 are the powder designations listed in the L.o.C. for loadings of the 577 Snider and the 577/450 Martini Henry ... References to these powder grades are also found in other documents of that time period.

Coyot�

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by dbm on 07/07/05 at 9:34pm

Somewhere I have a copy of a contemporary booklet on gun powder production at Waltham Abbey. I've found mostitems now I am settling inot my new house, but don't recall finding that... I'll have a look and report back! :)

David

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by dbm on 07/08/05 at 7:05am

The booklet is earlier then I thought; "Pamphlet on the Manufacture of Gunpowder as carried out at the Government Factory, Waltham Abbey". It is dated 1857 so predates the Snider.

There's a paragraph on "The Powder Best Adapted to the Enfield Rifle" which includes:

"As far as expermiments have been carried out at present, it is considered that a Powder made from small-wood Charcoal, from 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch in diameter, incorporated for 4 hours, slack pressed, and separated so as to obtain an even grain, between a 16 and 20 or 20 and 38-mesh wire sieve, will ansewer, in all respects, for this service better than any other."

A table of results of experiments with a one-pounder gun pendulum is published for 26 differnet kinds of powder. Charge was 1/4 pound. Results give Initial velocity of ball and relative force of powder. RFG2 is not listed. (R.15' and R.90' are but there is no explanation as to the gradings or pupose of all these powders).

A long winded way of saying I havn't found the answer to your question I am afraid!

David

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by DoubleD on 07/08/05 at 1:28pm

Long winded it is not, interesting it is. Given time someone will come along with the answer.

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by Bill_Curtis on 07/08/05 at 2:40pm

From Treatise on Service Explosives 1907

Page 24 Granulation. "......that which is retained by the 20 mesh is RFG2 powder."

These finer grades of powder were made with dogwood charcoal. The composition was 75/15/10 and they were glazed with one ounce of graphite per 100 pounds of powder as part of the final process.

Full details are also available of the times in the incorporating mill, pressing pressures, times in the granulation machine, dusting reels, glazing drums, in all, pages of it, not a lot of use to anyone not making it themselves.

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by DoubleD on 07/25/05 at 5:03pm

20 Mesh? That would equate to FFFG by today's standards.

Is that correct?

So I am going load of 85 grs. of FFFG in a Martini case followed up by a half a sheep of carded wool to fill the airspace....this is going to be interesting

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by DoubleD on 08/07/05 at 3:46am

So what is the mesh size of RFG?

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by A._Roads on 08/07/05 at 4:54am

Re mesh size & density of RFG & RFG2:
From "Treatise on Ammunition 1877".

"Service RFG....The size of grain is determined by its passing through a 12 and resting on a 20-mesh sieve. Density 1.6"

"Service RFG2.... Is the same size as the R.F.G. powder, but its density is greater being 1.72; it is therefore a slower burning powder. It is to give a muzzle velocity, when fired from a Martini-Henry rifle, of between 1,290 and 1,340 feet per second, i.e, a velocity of 1,315 ft. +/- 25 ft."

Hope that helps, Adrian.

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by FBoulton on 08/07/05 at 5:25pm

I pulled a couple of original martini cases a few years ago. The powder grain size was roughly equal to nutty slack, (for those of us who remember coal fires). The thing that interested me was that every flake of powder appeard identical in size and shape when viewed through a magnifier.
For 100 yard shooting, try the carbine load: 75 grains of ffg with a 410 grain bullet. I use a thin card wad over the powder in black powder cartridges of all types and then top up with semolina. There is a new product available in Texas which appears to be a mixture of cellulose and molybdenum disulphide---its called Puff-lon and the two shooters in our club that have obtained supplies claim that it improves groups and virtually eliminates fouling. WWW.pufflon.com.
Fred.

Title: Re: RFG2 powder
Post by DoubleD on 08/07/05 at 11:35pm

Fred,

What I trying to determine is what was the powder used in the original Martini Henry cartridges so I can duplicate the LoC load. RFG and RFG2 both have been mentioned.

What I have learned since my latest post was that RFG and RFG2 are both the same size granules, roughly equivalant to FFFG but they had two different specific densitys and two different burn rates.

This FFFG granule size is contradictory to modern loading recomendations thay say MH carteidges should be loaded with FG and that FFFG is to energetic for MH cartridges.