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British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Breech Loading - Military Rifles >> Enfield breech loading rifle
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1139700616

Message started by Weldon on 02/11/06 at 11:30pm

Title: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Weldon on 02/11/06 at 11:30pm

I have an Enfield rifle with a monkey tail type levered case hardened reciever for accepting paper wrapped cartridges. the lever is rotated to release a foreward hinged block. uses percussion caps. Is 57 cal. 55" overall 3 bands with 36" barrel. Mark on barrel " Pryse & Redman 84 aston st Birmingham" and "Patent Long Enfield breech loader" Lock is marked with crown and "1864 Tower" no marks stamped on stock. I have owned it over 50 years and was told it was a Greens patent. It does not seem to match any description of Westley Richards or Green models that I have been able to obtain. Who has any ideas about this conversion? Pryse and Redman were operating in Birmingham 1857-1862 so this was probably one of the many patented conversions that were part of the trials leading up to the adoption of the Snider patent by the British Army.

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by dbm on 02/13/06 at 6:59am

Following are two pictures of the rifle referred to above:

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/pics/enfconv01_1.jpg

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/pics/enfconv01_2.jpg

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by dbm on 02/13/06 at 7:08am

Bailey and Nie's "English Gunmakers" have Pryse & Redman operating from 84 Aston St., 1842-1873.

David

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Gordon on 04/16/06 at 6:39pm

The patent number 750 of March 20 1863 by C Pryse and D Kirkwood covers the hinged breech block and locking lever shown in the photos of your Enfield.

THe drawing differs in showing the nipple ahead of the breechblock; not mounted in it.

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Weldon on 05/13/06 at 10:58pm

Thanks to Gordon, I now have an identification of my firearm. I need some further information if anyone can help. First, how can I obtain a copy of patent 750? Is there any way of knowing if this patent was one of those rejected during the military trials that finally settled on the selection of the Snider model breech? Did the P&R company produce this patented product for sale in any quantity, and if so, who were their clients? My firearm was obtained from a collector in Oshawa Ontario Canada fifty years ago. How can I find persons that might be interested in adding it to their collection and how much does anyone think it is worth?

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Bill_Curtis on 05/14/06 at 6:29pm

I have a copy of The Report of the Committee appointed by the Government on the Trials at Woolwich of Enfield Rifles converted to Breech-Loaders together with a Further Report of the Ordnance Select Committee on Mr Snider's Method of converting the Enfield Rifle into a Breech-Loader.
Dated 6 February 1865 and 19 February 1865.

This report is in answer to the WO advertisement of 24/8/64 inviting gunmakers and others to submit plans for the conversion of Enfield Rifles to a breech-loader on the following conditions - 1st. Cost not to exceed �1 [one pound] per arm. 2nd Shooting not to be inferior to that of the Enfield Rifle.

Fifty different systems of conversion were proposed for the consideration of the OSC.

After careful examination the following eight systems were chosen as being prima facie the most promising for the object in view -

Storm's
Shepard's (b)
Westley Richards
Wilson's
Green's
Snider's
Joslyn's
Shepard's (a)

Contestants were given six rifles each which had been carefully selected for soundness and accuracy ar 500 yards range and were given two months to come up with the conversions and 1000 rounds of suitable ammunition.

The rifles and the ammunition were delivered in December and January 1864/5.

There are 31 foolscap pages to this Report so I will go no further.

As is now obvious, the Committee came down in favour of the Snider.

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Weldon on 05/14/06 at 9:21pm

Bill, Thanks for your information on the Woolwich trials. While the Pryse patent breech system did not make the finals, does it appear among the fifty origional proposals that you mentioned? If so, my guess is that it probably lost out because it required the use of a wrapped paper cartridge.

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Bill_Curtis on 05/15/06 at 12:13am

Unfortunately, the Report makes no mention of the other 42 but I presume there must be some mention of them somewhere in the OSC files. Not, however regretably, in my library.

Title: Re: Enfield breech loading rifle
Post by Bill_Curtis on 05/15/06 at 12:19am

Sorry, forgot to pick up on one of your points. Of these eight rifles, only the last three that I mentioned used a Snider type cartridge. The Westley Richards used a paper cartridge with its own internal cap but the others were capping BLs.