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British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Muzzle Loading - Military Muskets and Rifles >> HELP NEEDED !
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1142511670

Message started by fujijon on 03/16/06 at 12:21pm

Title: HELP NEEDED !
Post by fujijon on 03/16/06 at 12:21pm

Hello,
my main interest in shooting is airguns and collecting . I have acquired a Brown Bess musket . I know a little about these , but not enough . Can anyone help identify my model or point me in the right direction .........
39" , steel ram rod , 'CROWN ' and 'GR' to lockplate , two proof marks ( a friend dated these to Birmingham 1815 ) , with a makers mark of 'P&R' lying between the two previous marks . There is also a tiny mark , to the front of the triggerguard ,'29' under a crown .
Who were P&R ? Am I right that an arrow mark should be visible on the lockplate , and if so , what does the arrow stand for ? . I also obtained a BB socket bayonet , with the markings of ' MAKIN' ,' MM', a '6' under a crown , and in very large letters '27'.
As I said old airguns is more my field - if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated...
Jon
[email protected]

Title: Re: HELP NEEDED !
Post by dbm on 03/16/06 at 7:42pm

Sorry, I can't help with specific details on model, but two useful sources are:

Pattern Dates for British Ordnance Small Arms 1718-1783 by De Witt Bailey
(Published by Thomas Publications, 1997, ISBN: 1 57747 016 8 )

British Military Firearms 1650-1850 by Howard L. Blackmore
(Published by Greenhill Books, 1994 (first edition 1961), ISBN: 1 85367 172 X)

David

Title: Re: HELP NEEDED !
Post by A._Roads on 03/17/06 at 4:12am

"Brown Bess" is a generic term for the British infantry musket which changed relatively little for 150 years - so there are several patterns & many variants, you would need to post a couple of pictures to get a clear id. Most likely it is the "India" pattern, from your description of markings & barrel lengths. Adrian.

Title: Re: HELP NEEDED !
Post by fujijon on 03/17/06 at 11:18am

thanks for the replies . � I was told that simply because of the Birmingham proof marks , this meant �the gun is not a real Brown Bess , but made as a trade musket .......this came from someone with a vested interest in making money from the sale of the gun , so thats why I posted the query , before I do anything regards selling it . � � � I was also always under the impression that there was ALWAYS an ' arrow ' mark on military items - is this the case ?I will try to seek out the book mentioned and if I can take some pics , may try and post them or email .

Title: Re: HELP NEEDED !
Post by Bill_Curtis on 05/15/06 at 1:33pm

This gun may date from the 1840s as P & R was the mark of Pryse and Redman. The trade in muskets went on for decades after they became obsolete for European purposes.

If you have any pictures you can send them directly to me at

[email protected]