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http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Muzzle Loading - Sporting Guns and Rifles >> Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rifling http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1189876992 Message started by gelderenj on 09/15/07 at 6:23pm |
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Title: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rifling Post by gelderenj on 09/15/07 at 6:23pm We all know the characteristic shape of the polygonal rifled barrel of Joseph Whitworth. Whitworth�s patent of 30th may 1855 claimed: ��The adoption of the polygonal spiral for rifled ordnance and firearms��. It is less known that Whitworth was not the actual inventor of the polygonal barrel. Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rifling? Was it Isambard Brunel, Robert Moore or perhaps even somebody else? See the quotes below. This is what I have found about it. I want to know more and I want to know it more for sure. Please respond if you have other sources or if you can help me in another way. British Single Shot Rifles Volume 4 (Westley Richards) by Wall Winfer page 20: Isambard Kingdom Brunel wrote on 26 November 1858: I beg you to not to hesitate to take out a licence from Mr. Whitworth for octagon guns� on account of any prior claim which you may know I could set up�I should be very annoy my friend Mr. Whitworth merely for the sake of showing that I had previously made the gun at least you made it for me�I have never seen Whitworth�s patent? It cannot be merely the polygon, because, even if nobody had preceded me, that would have been already a copy of mine, which not only was made before he began his investigations but was lent by me at your request to him, I think before his patent. Theasdale-Buckell, in experts on Guns and Shooting 1900, quotes Mr. Gale who was Westley Richards London shop manager: �� Mr. gale tells me that this rifle (Whitworth�s) was really the invention of Brunel, who, not being a gun maker, consulted Westley Richards and it was in consequence of this that Whitworth got to hear about it. It�s strange that Westley Richards never put a claim on the patent of Whitworth. Westley Richards was normally very bellicose in such matters. Antother source, "Guns of the Empire", stated that not Brunel but Moore was the real inventor of the polygonal rifling: �"..The idea of mechanically fitting projectile, rather than one that was simply expanded into the rifling by the propellant had been suggested in Robert Moore's rifle of 1843. This had been brought to the attention of Isambard Brunel, who in turn mentioned it to Westley Richards�. Westly Richards made a prototype .451 calibre polygonal-bore rifle in 1854, through which Joseph Whitworth became involved in the project. Jan van Gelderen http://OldMilitaryRifles.EU |
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by FBoulton on 09/17/07 at 7:16pm Polygonal rifling was common on flintlock Jaeger rifles in the 18th century and also on their derivatives, the so called Kentucky rifles. Fred. |
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by gelderenj on 09/19/07 at 6:30pm Fred, I took one of my books, and indeed you're right. Even several American rifles, during the times of the Kentucky rifle, had a polygonal barrel. Not only the Kentucky itself. � I suppose they do not use mechanical fitting bullets, like the rifle of Joseph Whitworth, but that was also not my question. � I am going to read more about the Kentucky rifle. Thank you for your valuable reply Jan van Gelderen |
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by gelderenj on 10/03/07 at 6:30pm Fred, I am still searching but, this is what I have found until now: Kentucky rifles often had a octagon barrel but this concerns the outside, not the rifling. Do you perhaps have a internet link or photo of such a rifle with octagon rifling ? Jan van Gelderen http://OldMilitaryRifles.EU gelderenj wrote:
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by FBoulton on 10/04/07 at 12:49pm Jan, I don't have a picture to hand. My response was based on once having owned a battered example with seven sided polgonal rifling and having helped a friend buy a Jaeger rifle with polygonal rifling from Mike Long a few years ago. This was dually licenced and sgot for a couple of years. He has now moved to France and I have no contact number. regards, Fred. |
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by Bill_Curtis on 10/04/07 at 3:57pm There was nothing special about polygonal rifling and it had been around to a limited extent for over a century. �Moore whose name is mentioned was a Sergeant-Major in the Royal Artillery rather than a commercial gun maker. It cannot be emphasised enough that Whitworth's contribution to history was not polygonal rifling but an arrival at the true relationship between bore size, bullet weight and rate of spiral. |
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by gelderenj on 10/13/07 at 6:47pm Fred, Thank you for your response. Jan FBoulton wrote:
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Title: Re: Who was the real inventor of the polygonal rif Post by gelderenj on 10/13/07 at 6:48pm Bill, Thank you for your response. Jan Bill_Curtis wrote:
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