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British Firearms (Pre. 1914) >> Accoutrements and Accessories >> Tompion Patent info
http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/researchpress/YaBB.pl?num=1189921875

Message started by A._Roads on 09/16/07 at 6:51am

Title: Tompion Patent info
Post by A._Roads on 09/16/07 at 6:51am

I picked up this rather nice tompion the other day, the last one left from quite a quantity apparently. The previous owner was puzzled as to which arm it was for as it was too loose for .577 & too large for .45 etc. When I got it home I found that it fitted a 30 bore Calisher & Terry perfectly. A few Colonial bodies imported these arms & I am curious to learn if this tompion was indeed for this arm specifically or not. The date on the item is about correct for the C & T.
Does anyone have access to the Patent information as inscribed on the item? �"PATENTED 24 NOV 1863"?

Also were there other reasonably common rifles of 30 bore?

Thanks in advance, Adrian.

http://[/img]<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Aroads/Album%202/30boretompion.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Aroads/Album%202/30boretompion.jpg

http://[/img]<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Aroads/Album%202/Tompionparts.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/Aroads/Album%202/Tompionparts.jpg

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by Bill_Curtis on 09/16/07 at 2:35pm

This is W. E. Newton's Patent No. 2650 of October 13th 1865. �
The name G. R. Wilmot is that of the person by whom the invention has been communicated to the applicant for Letters Patent. (Just what that means, I will find out later).
The information comes out of �Patents For Inventions � Abridgments of Specifications. Class 119, Small-Arms. Period A.D. 1855-1866

The illustration is exactly the same as your specimen.
Protecting from dust and rain.
�A muzzle-stopper consists of a hollow cylinder d of vulcanised India-rubber, which is expanded radially by compression between the plate B and head A by a screw C, a sleeve k being interposed between the screw and the rubber. The cylinder d has on its outside a layer h of vulcanised rubber covered by a layer of leather, cloth, felt, or the like.�

W. E. Newton produced a string of patented inventions, his �Venetian Blind� �rear sight is one I have seen on an early Whitworth.. � The date November 24th, 1863 does not feature in the Abridgments.

30 bore as a rifle or carbine size is nothing out of the ordinary.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/whitworth451/MuzzleStopperNewtonPat.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/whitworth451/MuzzleStopperNewtondetail.jpg

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by A._Roads on 09/17/07 at 8:30am

Hi Bill, many thanks for that - it is just what I was hoping for! It also explains for me the body seal material, it has become very brittle so is difficult to identify & I was trying to decide if it was some compound or perhaps even leather, vulcanised india rubber. regards, Adrian.

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by Bill_Curtis on 09/17/07 at 12:13pm

Happy to have found it as I am not always so lucky. �I asked my old friend George, who is retired Patent Examiner, about the Wilmot reference and he said that the systems have changed a lot since that period but he thinks it is probably the name of the agent who dealt with the Patent Office on behalf of Newton (but he cannot be sure).

I have a small collection of tompions �including some by Blanch incorporating an oil bottle and others which can be used as rod guides. �I will photo them some time but meanwhile here is Blanch�s advertisement as an indication.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/whitworth451/TompionBlanch001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/whitworth451/TompionBlanch002.jpg

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by paetnyc on 09/20/07 at 12:48am

Hello Adrian and Bill.
Here are two Wilmots from my collection:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/nygtca2/WilmotTompionssideview.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/nygtca2/WilmotTompionsendview.jpg

The smaller is .593 (15mm - 24 bore approx.) diameter with a green fabric covering the rubber. The other is .75 (19.5mm - 10 bore approx.) and has a coarse fabric cover. I suspect that this larger one is for a shotgun or large caliber musket.

One reference (Gun Tools, Their History and Identification, volume 1) notes that the smaller Wilmot tompion was "listed in the 1865 (US) government publication "Instructions for Making Quarterly Returns of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores". Its official nomenclature was "Tompion, Expansible, Wilmot's Patent". It was listed for the Springfield Rifle Muskets Models '55 and '61".

I've seen quite a few of the smaller size over the years some with covers, some without. Also noted one that was huge and appeared to be for a gun of at least 2 inch bore.

Would very much like to see your photo(s) of the Blanch tompions, Bill. I've been looking for one of these for many years.

Regards,

Dave

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by Bill_Curtis on 09/20/07 at 9:09pm

This is very interesting. �As I see it, the 24 November 1863 Patent will be for the American Inventor Wilmot who had to get a UK citizen to register the patent in the UK, hence the grant of Letters Patent to Newton. �Can you confirm the earlier American Patent date for Wilmot.?

Going the other way, the British gunmaker Charles William Lancaster patented his Oval Bore Bolt Action Under Hammer Rifle on 28th September 1854, #2089, �with an improvement on 16th September 1857, #2400. �In the USA, one Lieut.-Colonel Durrell Greene patented this in 1857 on behalf of Lancaster, the design being exactly that of Lancaster. �BUT - to this day no-one in America believes anything other than that Greene was the inventor when he was nothing but Lancaster's representative. �The rifles were made in USA and a limited number purchased by the Federals. �I have handled a couple of them and would really like to give one a work out with the correct ammn. �This is the rifle where the bullet is pushed to the commencement of rifling by a push rod running through the bolt body. �A cartridge in reversed form like that of the P'53 is then loaded so that its bullet forms the base obturator for the next shot. �After firing, the rod pushes the bullet to the front of the chamber before the bolt is opened and a fresh reversed catridge inserted. �The problem is that before firing a number of shots, the first action is to load a loose bullet. �Another complication was the under hammer action. �I imagine troop training problems with these. �I would still like to have one though.

Title: Re: Tompion Patent info
Post by dbm on 09/21/07 at 7:22am

US Patents have been on line for some time via the Patent Office web site but were difficult to access unless the patent number was known. More recently google added a patent search facility at www.google.com/patents.

Willmot's patent number 40,720 dated 24 November 1863 can be found at:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=lxEAAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract

Try a search on 'tompion' and several other designs will appear.

David