Research Press - Brass cleaning jag

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Research Press › British Firearms (Pre. 1914) › Accoutrements and Accessories

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Brass cleaning jag (Read 436 times)

A._Roads

Junior Member

Posts: 85

Brass cleaning jag
10/03/05 at 11:51am

I was very fortunate to obtain this from a friend on the weekend, I believe that it is a brass cleaning jag for the P'39 & P'42 muskets & would have been used on the P'51 & altered P'42, issued along with the nipple wrench & seperate spring clamp.
These would have been in use for arms with the "button head" type of ramrod & made obsolete with the introduction of the jag head ramrod with the P'53, which came in with the new nipple wrench. Though this does fit down the bore of the P'53 I don't believe that it was issued for the early types with the button ramrod as it is too "snug" a fit. At first I thought it to be a Brunswick jag missing the male thread, but I don't think that is the case.
This is the first I've seen does anyone have one or pictures that I can compare? Thanks, Adrian

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Bill_Curtis

Full Member

Posts: 137

Re: Brass cleaning jag
Reply #1 - 10/05/05 at 11:59pm

I have a number of these both in original condition and in excavated Crimean examples.

They come in two sizes which fit the /51 and /53 rifles. Whether they were also issued with the /42 or AP/42 I know not. Some are regimentally marked and one of mine is a Thin Red Line 93rd Highlanders for the /51 and another is for the 51st Regt. for the /53. The construction is brass on an iron stem.

I have a double worm for the /51 found complete with a /51 bullet (2nd type) still wedged into the prongs.

I shall have to make pictures for you, I suppose, but have not got any to hand immediately.

Although the arrival of the 'jag head' rammer obviated the need for these jags, I believe that the prime reason for the jag head was to give the soldier a better grip on the rammer to pull it out of its channel.

Bill

Bill Curtis

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A._Roads

Junior Member

Posts: 85

Re: Brass cleaning jag
Reply #2 - 10/07/05 at 4:53am

Thanks Bill,
I've never seen these, only written reference in an article on Nipple Wrenches by De Witt Bailey. I can't seem to get the pics to stick here but will try again, probably the result will be another red X.

The shaft is steel & the jag head is brass as you describe . The shaft is stamped � TP � & has a crown over B over 4 but there are no regimental markings. � Adrian.

« Last Edit: 10/07/05 at 6:54am by Admin »

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Bill_Curtis Full Member Posts: 137	Re: Brass cleaning jag Reply #3 - 10/07/05 at 3:11pm Adrian Your jag was supplied by T Palmer. Tell me the OD of the head to the outside of the ridges and I can tell you if it is for the /51 or the /53. The other contractors for jags were R & W Aston and good old T & C Gilbert. Bill
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A._Roads Junior Member Posts: 85	Re: Brass cleaning jag Reply #4 - 10/10/05 at 11:44am Thanks again Bill. The diameter to the outside of the ridges is 14.5mm. (don't ask me what that means in inches sorry!). In your opinion would not the jag for the P'51 also be for the P'42 & similar arms? They must have needed the same exact item? Regards, Adrian.
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Bill_Curtis

Full Member

Posts: 137

Re: Brass cleaning jag
Reply #5 - 10/10/05 at 11:07pm

In haste before I leave for Paris.

The /51 jags excavated in the Crimea have heads which vary around .575-.585 diameter. The unused ones are around .575 but none of them are truly round so that is about the average.

The /53 on the other hand is down in .480 area. Yours would therefore be for the /51.

If you have a problem with proper civilised measurements, apply a factor of 254. i.e., divide mm by 254 and move the decimal point to where it looks right. 145 div 254 = 0.57087. Ans is .571 near enough.

As to whether they were also used for the /42 and AP/42, I do not know and have no evidence either way so prefer not to speculate although thought might be given the use of the double prong worm which had been in use for many years and may be the item referred to as the 'wiper'. It is perfectly easy to use this tool to hold cleaning material. If I had to guess, I would imagine these brass and iron jags were typical of Lovell's style and came in first with male screws for the Brunswick ???

Bill Curtis

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A._Roads Junior Member Posts: 85	Re: Brass cleaning jag Reply #6 - 10/12/05 at 4:06am Thanks again Bill, your help & advice is very much appreciated. That is a good point about these probably initiating from the Brunswick jag. Enjoy your trip. Adrian.
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Research Press › British Firearms (Pre. 1914) › Accoutrements and Accessories

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