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Early P/53 (Read 646 times)
Pat in Virginia
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Early P/53
Jul 5th, 2010 at 8:54pm
 
� �Here is a piece of history: a P1853 3-bander with solid bands that has been cut down.� The barrel is 26 � inches.� Survey marks are on the stock and barrel.� Also a BO, Bureau of Ordnance, with single arrow mark is on the stock.� �Any special implication to the BO mark?�
� ��RP� is one of the various marks in the ramrod channel.� Anyone know RP?
� �The lock is marked Tower 1855.� Inside the lock plate is marked Brazier, J. Brazier & Son, received a contract for 3,900 locks for the first 20,000 contracted P/53s.� It appears and feels to be a very well made lock.� �
� �There is a T inside an ellipse stamped across the juncture of the top of the tang and the barrel.� Any idea as to what that mark means?� �
� �The bottom of the barrel is marked �W. Millward�.� William Millward was one of the original barrel makers contracted under the BO�s order� O/411 of 6 October 1853 for the procurement of parts for 20,000 P/53s.� The same as Brazier was for locks.� �Millward�s portion was 3000 barrels.
� �At the bottom rear of the barrel I find these marks in differing places and sizes: �KEEN�,� �46�, �J-M� and then some odd looking marks that are also found on the lock and stock �IVI� which appear to have been done with a chisel and where the leading� �I� is pronouncedly slanted just like the leading edge of the following �V.�� �The following �I� is straight up as one would expect .� Anyone have any thoughts about this?� �
� �If it went to India/Nepal� I�m wondering where the rifle was cut down.� Was it by the Bureau of Ordinance before it was sold?�
� �I�ve included two pictures: one of the rifle as a whole and one of the proof marks.� There is a survey mark and two Birmingham proofs as you would expect, but there are other marks there as well that are unknown to me.� �Any help in interpreting the marks would be appreciated.� �

� �I�ll put the picture of the rifle in a �Continuation� post.

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Proof_Marks76.JPG (155 KB | 38 )
 
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Pat in Virginia
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Re: Early P/53 Continuation
Reply #1 - Jul 5th, 2010 at 8:56pm
 
Here's the whole rifle picture:

(Note that the rear sight is not original to the rifle.)
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Full_Rifle.JPG (114 KB | 41 )
 
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Pat in Virginia
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #2 - Nov 26th, 2010 at 8:49pm
 
I've decided it's time to do something about the barrel of the P/53 pictured above.� The barrel is belled at the muzzle and accuracy is non-existent.

One way I have considered going is to simply have the barrel relined following the Naval Rifle form of rifling.� That means I will have a 26 1/2 inch barrel and I don't like that, but this approach makes minimum mods to the rifle as it currently exists.� �The barrel would be 2 1/2 inches longer than a musketoon.

A second approach which would probably produce a more accurate rifle would be to have the barrel relined and lengthed to 30 1/2 inches with Naval style rifling.� That means the barrel will be cut back to the mid-point of the upper barrel band and a new extention will be welded on to increase the length to 30 1/2 inches.� The front of the chopped off barrel has already been monkeyed with as a Wesley Richards like sight has been welded on and the barrle has a blue cast for the first 3 or 4 inches.

In both approaches I would be leaving the existing stock as is.� The 30 1/2 inch length keeps the proportions of barrel length to forestock length consistent with that of 33 inch barreled rifles (which of course have a longer forestock).

You thoughts and opinions would be appreciated as I formulate my instructions to tell my gunsmith what to do.

If you think extending the barrel an additional 4 inches over its current length wouldn't buy me much improvement in accuracy I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.� 100 to 200 yard accuracy is all that I'm hoping to get.

Pat in Virginia
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gcrank1
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #3 - Nov 27th, 2010 at 5:55pm
 
Im perhaps a more 'practical' kind of guy, rather than a purist, but, If I may.......
Is it worth it to you, to go whole hog in a restoration and have one of many P1853s? I do not know how such would be valued on the market or appreciate in time. Do it if you like it.
Or, reline as is, and enjoy. My thought is,"it is what it is", and this is part of its history, warts and all.
BTW, I like carbines and short rifles so I am far too biased, I know.......
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paulbehe
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2010 at 3:06pm
 
Pat.....Have you thought of a complete re-barrel job?  A new barrel would probably cost you the same amount of $ that you are going to pay your gunsmith for the modification [still with no guarantee it will shoot well!] The civil war re-enactor sites would probably be the place to check for enfield barrels etc. Let us know what you decide.  [I just love projects!]   cheers  Paul
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Pat in Virginia
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 4:23pm
 
Paul,

The gunsmith I like to deal with for this sort of thing charges, according to the last (but old) price sheet I have, $300 for a new BP barrel and $200 for an original one that is relined.� This gentleman does a ton of work for the North-South Skirmish Association members and his work is very well thought of.

So relining is a cheaper way to go.� I can also get him to lengthen the old barrel to whatever I want.� We haven't talked price about that yet.� At this point I'm not opting to lengthen the forestock.� The barrel is currently 26 1/2 inches and I believe I can have it lengthenen to 30 1/2 and still look in proportion with the existing stock.

The question in my mind is: Will 4 more inches buy me any significant increase in accuracy at 200 yards given a 1:48 twist and 5 groves?� If no, I'd just have it relined as is.

If the muzzle end of the existing barrel had not been fiddled with in multiple ways (and some recently) I also would not consider lengthening it.� �I'd just have it relined as is so that it has a chance to shoot decently since current accuracy is lousy.

Pat
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gcrank1
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 8:45pm
 
I suspect that given your 200yd. range criteria the longer sight radius might be the only real advantage.
If I recall correctly, in Ned Robert's book "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" a number of the match rifles had barrels close to yours as is.
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Pat in Virginia
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Re: Early P/53
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 11:31pm
 
Thanks, gcrank1, that's good info.

Pat
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