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Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle (Read 1150 times)
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Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
04/10/05 at 9:41am
 
I have received an enquiry from Canada seeking information about a Greener .22 rifle engraved with "Queen's Cup Winner" and a depiction of the Queen Alexandra's Cup on the side above the trigger.  I am awaiting further details, such as any serial number.  I have heard it suggested that this was not a prize rifle, but may be an attempt by Greener to have a rifle aimed at those shooting to Queen Alex conditions.
 
Can anyone point me in the direction of published information about this rifle, either in books or publications, or even adverts, please?  I am particularly trying to establish the dates of such rifles, which look to be possibly 15 years before the shooting career of the individual known to have owned it.
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #1 - 04/10/05 at 6:35pm
 
If you go to links on the NSRA website and go to Historic arms Miniature Rifle league you will find a section on target Rifles.Within that section is a very good article on W.W.Greener including what you are looking for. Good luck .   TJ.
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #2 - 04/10/05 at 7:26pm
 
The those not aware of the NSRA, the links referred to are:
 
National Small-bore Rifle Association; www.nsra.co.uk
 
HARC Miniature Rifle Leage; www.rifleman.org.uk
 
W.W.Greener Martini Target Rifles; www.rifleman.org.uk/W.W.Greener_martini_target_rifles.htm
 
David
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #3 - 04/10/05 at 8:34pm
 
Thank you both for this most helpful source - it should answer all the questions from Canada.
 
Now I'll also have to contact HARC to add a little bit to the bottom of the page on Greener rifles, as I managed to buy, for the NSRA Museum, the Queen Alexandra Cup 1910 certificate, which is illustrated there.
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #4 - 04/10/05 at 9:21pm
 
Are you aware of H. Ommundsen's 1915 book "Rifle and Ammunition"? This includes some pages on the SMRC with brief information on the 1903 Miniature Rifle Prize meeting at Crystal Palace and others, plus Greener's conversion of the Martini-Henry to .22, and the 1905 SMRC regulations.
 
As I recall, weren't a lot of the early records of the SMRC lost in a fire?
 
David
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #5 - 04/11/05 at 6:54pm
 
Thank you David.
 
The whole of the SMRC's library was lost in May 1941 in the blitz, but we received many donations very shortly after, following an appeal, and they continue to trickle in.  In fact a copy of Rifles and Ammunition by Ommundsen and Robinson was donated only a few months ago.  My problem at the moment is that I don't seem to have enough time to read them all!!
 
Another valuable book on early SMRC material is The Citizen Rifleman by E J D Newitt, 1906, as it has results of all the SMRC open meetings prior to The Rifleman starting to be published.  One of the NSRA's copies of it was a donation by Newitt himself on 11 October 1943, being a copy he purchased second hand in 1932 from a bookseller in Paternoster Row (all recorded in the book in his own hand).
 
Thanks to everyone for the help on the Greener Queen's Cup rifle, which has saved me hours.  Unfortunately I have not yet been able to find any adverts or editorial reference to it in The Rifleman.
 
Brian Woodall
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #6 - 12/30/05 at 1:49pm
 
Hi,
 
I am interested to see that you have a certificate that looks like it was awarded to my great grandfather, W. Bradford.
 
I recently have purchased a bronze medal with field Marshal Lord Roberts of kandahar on one side and an angel and "society of miniture rifle clubs queen alexandras cvp" on the other side. I can send photos if interested.
 
I also have a book presented and signed by Lord Roberts to Bernard Hyde, "for skill in shooting at the newark and District Miniture rifle meeting " july 1912. The book is Robert's 41 years in India.
 
I would be very interested in a copy of the certificate if possible?
 
Ben Bellamy
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #7 - 12/31/05 at 11:35am
 
Dear Ben
 
I will be happy to send a photo of the Bradford certificate. Perhaps you could send me your postal address to my office email ([email protected]).  I will then be able to add photocopies of the published results for that year.
 
The Roberts/Queen Alex medal you have is well known to us and copies regularly turn up on eBay. The one that will have been won by your great grandfather is probably slightly different, as those for 1910 had the date included in the die in a small circle to the right of the angel.  Other years where dates were in the die included 1918 and 1920, but the vast majority of the SMRC medals did not have a date in the die and only a small proportion have a date engraved on them.  They certainly continued in use until 1947, when the SMRC changed its name to the NSRA.  However I have seen the odd SMRC version engraved with dates into the early 1950s.
 
When I get back to the office and the records, I'll see what I can turn up for you about Mr. Hyde.
 
Kind regards
Brian Woodall
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #8 - 01/28/06 at 1:09pm
 
I have one of these that is missing the flap and ladder from the rear barrel sight.  Are originals available?  If not would regular Martini Henry or Martini Enfield sight parts work?
 
Thanks for your help.
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #9 - 01/28/06 at 2:54pm
 
I would try direct contact with Greener and see what they have to say.
 
W.W. Greener - http://www.wwgreener.com/index.html
 
You can also contact these two fellows:
 
Sights, Sight Parts
Jim Hallam, Parker-Hale sight parts - [email protected]  
 
Kirkless's Gunshop - http://www.virtualhuddersfield.com/gunshop.htm
 
I have a lot of Martini related links on my Resource list at:  http://www.martinihenry.com/links.htm
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #10 - 01/28/06 at 10:10pm
 
Going through my Library to look for any reference to this Greener rifle I noted from the period (leaving out the earlier Greener books) that I have Greener's :-
SHARP SHOOTING FOR SPORT AND WAR (1900)
in the original paper back edition.
 
The same in the original hard back edition.
 
The 1914 version when the title had been changed to :-
 
SHARPSHOOTING FOR WAR AND DEFENCE, this is in the original paper back with a cover in a very patriotic format.
 
TEAM TRAINING AND TEAMCRAFT WITH A CHAPTER ON ASHBURTON SHIELD TEAMS.  This is by "OTC" but is published by Greener. This is undated but appears to be from about 1910.
 
As I have two versions of the 1900 edition I am open to offers for the paperback edition.  First offer of fifty quid  gets it (post paid) .
The spine has been replaced with heavy tape. The original printed paper cover has a kneeling rifleman with a Long Lee in Boer War kit.  Frontispiece, xi, 173, 13 pp of adverts (mainly Greener)
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Re: Greener Queen's Cup .22 Rifle
Reply #11 - 01/29/06 at 12:05am
 
As an afterthought - I can accept PayPal if you have that facility.
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