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.58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle? (Read 356 times)
JoeM
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.58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
05/06/07 at 5:57am
 
Hello all,,,
 
My question is;  
 
In your opinion would a .58 caliber 1853 Enfield (2 or 3 band) rilfe, be able to hold its own in the old Creedmoor type matches that were shot from 800, 900, and 1000 yards when considering the target size used at these matches, 12' long x 6' high, with 6' square center, 3' square bullseye, and 2' wide x 6' high outers - left & right?
 
I realize the shooter controls the out-come of such events with their ability and knowledge and practice of the firearm being used, but can the Enfield fill the bill so to speak?  I've kind of always wondered about this.
 
Thanks in advance! Smiley
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Bill_Curtis
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #1 - 05/06/07 at 11:16am
 
Given a day of no wind at all, then it is possible to produce a group that will permit a proportion of an Enfield's bullets to arrive on the large target but it has no chance competitively against a small bore.  How many days are like that ?  I remember one such at Bisley when my P'53 LACo. kept most of its bullets on the target at 800 yards.  De Witt Bailey, I recall, did much the same with a Five Groove Short Enfield at 1,000 yards on another still day. In general I would say that 600 yards is the maximum target range for any Enfield.
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Bill Curtis
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JoeM
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #2 - 05/06/07 at 4:57pm
 
Thank you Bill, I appreciate it!  
 
I had my doubts that it would be considered a competitive rifle at those long ranges from the weight of the slow moving minie combined with not really having a way to effectively speed up a hollow based minie without blowing the skirt to achieve a level of "fps" required, (effecting accuracy with a deformed skirt), not to mention bucking the wind with such a rainbow shot it would require with a .58 caliber at those distances.
 
By the way, I would like to add that I have enjoyed your knowledge of antique firearms over the years.  
 
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Bill_Curtis
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #3 - 05/06/07 at 6:23pm
 
Thank you for the kind thought.  The Enfield is a military rifle and in its context it was a fine one.  Sighted to 900 (later 1,000) the Rifle-Musket was a formidable weapon for area targets with volley fire out to 1000 yards and even more.  Enfields silenced an enemy battery at 1100 yards during the Indian Mutiny.  The 1861 Five Groove Short Rifle was sighted to 1250 yards and was certainly more precise at long ranges than the Rifle-Musket /53 but it is still not a target rifle beyond 600 yards where the small bore Whitworth derivatives will always beat it.
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Bill Curtis
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #4 - 05/07/07 at 8:12am
 
The Long Range Rifles Branch of the MLAGB holds an Enfield aggregate of 15 shots at each distance, 600 and 800 yards. At these distances the Enfield scores are markedly lower than those achieved with the contemporary small-bore (.451) rifle. Best I've managed is about 60% of my shots on the 10' x 6' target at 800 yards, although others have done better.
 
Still, it's good fun and an interesting exercise. If it was a Civil War artillery crew at 800 yards and not a paper target they would be having a difficult time! This was of course under range conditions with feedback from the butts. In a military situation you'd need good range estimation and to know your sights.
 
See Whitworth's 'Guns and Steel' on my long range web site, which has some comparative results of Enfield vs Whitworth testing.
 
David
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JoeM
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #5 - 05/08/07 at 3:55am
 
Thank you David, (great site here by the way!) �
 
I must confess that I am for the most part a 100% patch & ball paper shooter out to 100 yards, but I do at times dabble in 100 to 250 yard 'gong and silhouette' target shooting (using patch & ball) when our club holds �these type of matches... � I have always used fixed sights with the old adage of, 'windage & elevation' - guess and by-golly...
 
Aside from the Uncle Sam plan back in the '70s when we trained with our M16's out to 500 meters,,, my only experience with a long range muzzleloader of a design to shoot long range, was a friends '53 Parker Hale .58 caliber Enfield from 300 yards which was a pleasure to shoot!
 
He set the elevation and I guessed on the windage which resulted in two hits on a life size metal silhouette of a Coyote. �(I held left just above his rear-end) �low and behold, a splat on the neck "twice" about 16 to 18 inches to the right. �Needless to say I started to become hooked on '53 Enfields!
 
Realistically, where I live we have a 300 yard range and our State Muzzleloading shoot holds it's NMLRA Rifled Musket competition at a maximum range of 100 yards... � �Last year after spotting for a couple of the boys I felt I just had to get into the rifled musket game. �I could actually follow the minie on more then one occasion going into the target as they were moving so slow. � Just a guess, but I would say I picked up sight of the minie through the spotting scope at about 75 to 80 yards out?
 
David, if you and Bill, feel that a '53 Enfield would be a good choice to enter into this type of "short" long range shooting - 100 yards to 300 yards, (who knows someday I may get to shoot further), I am convinced that I should take the plunge and get me a .58 - '53 - 3 Band Enfield. �
 
Could either of you recommend a quality replica? �I would love to have an orginal but with the oldest heading off to college this year, I will have to settle for a replica.
 
Thanks! Smiley  
 
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #6 - 05/08/07 at 6:41am
 
Good shooting can be had from the Enfield rifle at 200-300 yards. The rifle of choice for many is the P/58 Navy rifle (which has been manufactured as a reproduction by Parker-Hale) or any of the later Army Short rifles. I have however seen the P/53 Rifle Musket used to good effect and it appears to hold its own against the shorter rifles.
 
One potential disadvantage of the P/53 is the proximity of the rearsight to the eye, on the short rifles it is set further forwards and a better sight picture may be achieved. Have a read of Bill's article on Managing the Enfield on this site. It covers all you will need to know to get you started in shooting th Enfield.
 
As for reproductions those made by Parker-Hale are generally regarded as the finest. They are however no longer manufactured, but can be found on the 2nd hand market. Have a look at the bulletin board on the N-SSA web site.
 
David
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JoeM
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Re: .58 1853 Enfield as a Target Rifle?
Reply #7 - 05/08/07 at 1:47pm
 
Thank you David, I will read Bill's article and take a look at the N-SSA site.  I did not even consider the rear sight.  Over the years - my rear sights have crept foreward just to keep the sight picture.
 
I will also take another look at my friends Parker-Hale for sighting purpose to make sure I can still get a good sight picture, and I will also take a look at the P-58 Navy.
 
Thanks  Smiley
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