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Long Range Muzzle Loader
Dec 12th, 2007, 9:47am
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hashett_jack
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long range details
Nov 4th, 2007, 8:46pm
 
Dear friends , a couple of questions from a terrific  long range beginner :
- When I take a look to the Match Results , I see scores as follows : " 60.02 , 56.01... " what do that means , the latests two numbers ?? I suppose that 60 must be six ten ring shots ( for example) but  " .02 ..."  
- When you say a Match consists in 15 shots... are the better 10 , or you do the total addition of the 15 shots ??
- I�ve never shot at this range  , and I wonder how see every one of your shots ?? Do you use a telescope ? cameras ?
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belgmart
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Re: long range details
Reply #1 - Nov 4th, 2007, 9:38pm
 
This will take quite a bit of time, so bear with me...
1st of all, the targets used in the anglosaxon world (more or less standard for LR work) have a 5-ring as max score, with an x-ring inside that, which is called V-bull.
When you shoot and are scored, the number of V-bull is noted, so a 60.03 would be a score of 60 (out of a possible max. of 75), with 3 V-bulls.  In LR shooting, MLAIC rules are not used, so it is not the best 10 out of 13, or whatever.  
For LR work, you shoot 15 shots for score, each shot having a potential max. score of 5 ( so the max. score is 75).  
BUT you also have  - as a rule - 5 ranging shots, to get on target and 5 sighters to get good sight settings for the range and conditions.  The 1st shot hitting the target will be your 1st sighter.
You can usually convert your sighters to scoring shots in the reverse firing order, i.e. you can convert the last shot, or the last 2, 3,... - or all 5.  However, you won't be allowed to convert the 1st 3, and not the last 2 (reverse firing order, remember?)
And as to spotting your shots, actually nobody is able to see them with their spotting scopes - but there's markers in the butts which will both indicate score and fall of shot on the target.  Sometimes these are 'dedicated' markers, sometimes it is just other shooters that aren't shooting in the current detail, so your turn will be next...
 
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #2 - Nov 4th, 2007, 9:48pm
 
Gulp !
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #3 - Nov 4th, 2007, 9:53pm
 
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David
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Re: long range details
Reply #4 - Nov 4th, 2007, 11:05pm
 
For details of the targets used in Great Britain and in international MLAIC Long Range Matches see: www.mlagb.com/rifle/nratargets.htm. Targets used for 'domestic' US matches differ.
 
The MLAIC have rules for long range shooting and these are published in Appendix 4 of the Constitution Rules and Regulations.
 
International course of fire is:
300, 500, 600 yards - 3 sighters and 10 match shots in 60 minutes
900, 1000 yards - 5 sighters and 15 match shots in 90 minutes
 
You have unlimited ranging shots, the first shot to strike the target being counted as the first sighter. All shooting has to be completed in the alloted time.
 
David
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David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms History, Target Shooting & Volunteer Infantry
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DoubleD
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Re: long range details
Reply #5 - Nov 5th, 2007, 6:55am
 
Okay Gents is it 5 ranging shots �and 5 sighter or unlimited ranging and 5 sighters?
 
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David
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Re: long range details
Reply #6 - Nov 5th, 2007, 7:09am
 
For muzzle loading and both MLAIC International rules and MLAGB rules there are unlimited ranging shots. The first shot to strike the scoring area of the target is the first sighter. There are either 3 or 5 sighters depending on the distance fired as above.
 
Some domestic competitions run by the NRA in the UK have 5 ranging shots and 5 sighting shots. There is also a series of World Historical Long Range matches for black powder rifles, which permits entry for both muzzle and breech loading - I don't know what their rules are.
 
David
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David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk
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belgmart
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Re: long range details
Reply #7 - Nov 5th, 2007, 3:29pm
 
FWIW,  I only have experience with the HBSA and The WLRHSA matches, so those are all the reference points I have...  Suffice to say, getting on target at 1,000 isn't as easy as it seems at 1st glance!  LR shooting is at the same time a very satisfying but also sometimes an extremely frustrating sport - like getting off the target during your string, and trying to get back on...
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2007, 6:30pm
 
Friends , glad to meet you and glad to meet this forum... !!!
 
Very enlightening . I�ve just talk with the Madrid Shotting Sport Manager in order to organize a 600 Mts Event  here in Spain for Breech and muzzleloading and even modern military rifles  probably next Jannuary... I menace you all to be a pain asking for information !!!
 
Thanks one more time
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belgmart
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Re: long range details
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2007, 9:13pm
 
600?  Now, that's midrange!  And where in/near Madrid might that be?  In Januari, would be rather cold, no?
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2007, 11:20pm
 
ooooppss... my mistake, I mean NEXT JUNE !!  You�re right about midrange...I should like both 600-1000 mts , but may be too much for only one week end , and the first time that kind of competition over here , no experience . Really I�m thinking about it , and may be... it depends on number of targets , shotting posts I mean .  By the way , you have explain to me about " markers " , dedicated or others shoters but.... how are them engaged with the shoter ??
 
there are a couple of options about military shotting fields near Madrid , I will tell you...
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David
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Re: long range details
Reply #11 - Nov 6th, 2007, 5:25pm
 
Unless you have the modern luxury of electronic target scoring you will most likely require a butt marker to pull target frames up and down, mark shot placement and signal score. Shot placement is simple indicated by placing a 'pin' through the shot hole - the pin itself holding a piece of flourescent orange card which the shooter can see with the aid of a spotting telescope. See the MLAIC rules refered to above for signals etc used.
 
Some competitions shooters share duties with marking while in others paid markers are employed. It really depends on your renage facilities.
 
David
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David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #12 - Nov 6th, 2007, 6:44pm
 
then , if I have understood , a man ( shooter or employed ) he�s waiting down in the butt for every impact , place down the target and mark the hole with the correct colour etc ?
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David
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Re: long range details
Reply #13 - Nov 6th, 2007, 7:51pm
 
Yes, you need a marker for each shot so that the shooter can see the plot fall. It is also usual to have 2 or 3 shooters share one target, so one will fire while the others are loading. After the shot is fired, the next shooter will take his turn. So you could have say 5 targets, but 15 shooters in the same detail. For this reason each shot is scored and recorded.
 
I realise all this sounds somewhat complicated if you don't have experience of it, but things do (generally) run smoothly!
 
David
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David Minshall - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms History, Target Shooting & Volunteer Infantry
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hashett_jack
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Re: long range details
Reply #14 - Nov 6th, 2007, 8:29pm
 
ok , that system would  simplify things when you got a small number of shotting posts , but it really seems easy to mistake , several shooters for the same target... how can the marker know who have just shooted.... I imagine they shot always in the same order ??
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